All My Hopes and Dreams for Spring

 

game of thrones season 8 wrap up.png

Okay that title is a little misleading. I genuinely hope and believe that GRRM will do a finer job of telling his own story than I or anyone else ever could. At the same time, we have been forewarned to expect much the same thing as the show. So, while I still think there will be better set up in the books, I don’t think it’s worth holding out too much hope for things being all that different. I’m trying to work very much within the existing framework and exploring slight differences- rather than writing an alternative ending (sorry if you got your hopes up 😉 ). And if you’ve been thrown into this post and are wondering where I’m coming from with this, feel free to check out my posts on the series:

Hot Stuff: Returning to Winterfell

A Knight of Seven Kingdoms on the Edge of a Dark & Scary Night

The Long Night Cometh

The Last of the Starks *DUN DUN DUNNN*

Did the Bells Sound the Death Knell for Game of Thrones?

The Iron Throne Did Not Sit Well with Me

Now that I’ve got my apologies out the way, *spoiler warning*, I’m gonna get into what I actually think…

Honestly, while I would like nothing more than for the White Walkers to be the final villain, with Dany having sacked King’s Landing and going North for a redemption arc- I don’t think that’s how it’s going to go down. A Song of Ice and Fire was never a typical fantasy story. If anything, the showrunners made it too epic by position the Night King as the Big Boss Villain (and then backtracking on that pronto).

army of the dead
“We’re not going anywhere…”

My thoughts are more along the lines that Jon will fight the majority of the White Walkers in Winds of Winter and defeat most of their forces. BUT this won’t be a “Night King dies and army of the dead collapses”- rather he will find out the *real reason* they exist and thus will need a long term strategy to keep them from returning. With this promise of a future threat, Jon is motivated to go South and get more help for the Night’s Watch in case this threat arises again (that or he’ll have a “to hell with you all moment” and just abandon his post 😉). Either way, Jon’s character arc will definitely get darker, especially after having been brought back to life, but he will retain the respect of his men by defeating some of the dead (again #notall – if this is a metaphor for Global Warming, it stands to reason it is both a manmade threat AND an ongoing battle for mankind). Dany, by contrast, will spend most of the book entangled in conflicts with the Dothraki and then crossing the sea to Westeros.

greyscale
Because remember Greyscale? That’s a thing.

Dream of Spring, in my mind, will cover Dany’s descent into “madness” and loss of her remaining forces. This is where SELMY will give her some appalling advice, which results in losing most of her armies. She will be backed into a corner AND have the added displeasure of having to fight someone she views as a fraud… the book’s Aegon Targaryen. Aegon will gain the support from Dorne that rightfully belongs to her. Driven by her anger and perhaps the spread of Greyscale in the city, she will burn King’s Landing to the ground as a last-ditch effort to win her war. People will then label her the Mad Queen and malign her as a monster in stories- somewhat unfairly (the benefit of having multiple povs means it doesn’t have to be black or white and significantly we’ll see it from Dany’s perspective).

Now I’d love to see Jon/Dany storylines elegantly tied up, but I have left this open-ended deliberately. It is possible that they meet and even that Dany becomes pregnant with his child (parts of her story were given to Cersei after all). I would love nothing more than the fulfilment of the Azor Ahai prophecy, where Jon kills his lover before turning to fight the rest of the White Walkers. HOWEVER, it is also possible that Jon hears of the Mad Queen and his heritage and it’s at this point where he turns to King’s Landing to defeat her. Either way, I would very much still expect him to kill Dany when she goes too far AND to turn away from the throne when it is offered to him (the main difference being he still has a mystical purpose in the North and it is HIS CHOICE!) Also, he’ll have Rhaegal, cos I’m not so flippant about killing dragons…

rhaegal dragon.gif
Hey- if the showrunners can do things for fun, so can I! At least it’s not an ice bear 😉

 

Turning to a *more wish fulfilment* part of the post, Bran will be Lord of Winterfell at most. NOT king. Seriously, I hate this twist and I don’t think even GRRM can convince me it will work. Now, this isn’t me side-lining Sansa- I still love her and would like/expect her to end up in Highgarden (bearing in mind where she is in the books is very different to the show). I also think she’ll be instrumental in bringing down Littlefinger AND that she’ll witness the Eyrie falling (because “impregnable” in fantasy is code for “definitely getting impregnated”). Notice the only person I haven’t mentioned is Tyrion- that’s because in the books he has been side-lined and I’m not sure what that’ll mean for his character. I think ultimately he’s probably going to regain Casterly Rock, but I don’t see him as anything more than an advisor to Dany. I don’t see him becoming Hand of the King. In fact, I still think there will be more of a council-type situation when it comes to the way power is balanced out when the books end.

One thing I am certain of is that the same people that died in the show will die in the books. I do think there will be differences in execution- most notably with regards to Jaime and Cersei (Cersei’s end will be closer to what was prophesised). Actually, this seems like a good time to see how accurate I was with previous predictions:

who lives who dies....png
Who lives, who dies…

Not bad. The only main character that died who I didn’t mention was the Hound (not including Varys and Melisandre who we were told would die). I was definitely overcautious putting Jon on the list- especially when I thought he’d survive up until the eve of Season 8 (though given how his story ended I wish he had got it). Thankfully I was very wrong about Arya- I thought she was heading down a darker path. I suppose we should be grateful for the Hound’s wisdom.

Oh boy, thinking of what I got wrong already, this is definitely the kind of post that won’t age well 😉 As I said before, I could easily be wrong on all of this, but it was a little cathartic to get this out of my system. Perhaps my fumbling about can be seen as evidence for what a difficult job the showrunners had bringing it all together. And I’m sympathetic to that, really. I only wish we hadn’t been put through that fiasco of a finale. Also, because my job does not depend on it, I can safely say this is a democracy and I’m very open to suggestions you have here.

How do you think the books will end? Do you think it will be totally different or much the same as the show? Or are you like me- do you think it will probably be the same, but would like to entertain ideas of it being different? Let me know in the comments!

33 thoughts on “All My Hopes and Dreams for Spring

  1. I stopped watching the show after season 5, where it aligned with the end of the books. I have, however, accidentally seen parts of season 7 and 8 as well as the whole finale .. perks of living with someone only interested in the show.
    I read one theory that Sansa will end up Queen of the North while Dany gets the six kingdoms – though this might have been more of wishful thinking. I do agree that I see Bran only becoming Lord of Winterfell not King. Honestly, it would be interesting if GRRM breaks up the kingdoms to be come their own once again. Then no one gets the throne haha
    I definitely will be rereading once I hear of the release date for WoW.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. That’s fair! ahh I can understand that.
      I can’t entirely comment cos I’ve seen the show, so I know how that ends 😉 But I’d really like to see something different from that (even if it’s just a little!) cos I wasn’t happy with it. At this stage I’d be happy with no one to be fair!
      Yeah me too.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. I am confident that George R.R. Martin will tie everything up pretty well, but I think Dany’s descent into madness has already started and we will properly see it when she finally gets back from frolicking with Drogon in the Dothraki Sea. As for your idea about Jon’s story, I like it. I certainly hope The Others aren’t defeated as quickly as their show equivalents (The White Walkers) were – that was all a bit crap for the ‘main threat’. As for Bran, I think he will end up on the throne, BUT I think the fact that The Three-Eyed Raven is a Targayren bastard will play into this… He is manipulating Bran and will be lurking in the back of his mind or something. Sneaky Brandyn Rivers!

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Glad I’m not the only one thinking GRRM will give it a good ending! I do think the descent into madness has begun in the book, but because we see into her head, it’ll make more sense (I’d also like to see a few more reasons for her to crack, rather than it being a split second thing). Thanks! Yeah it really was. Oh that’s a really interesting idea! I like that!! Maybe I wouldn’t mind it as much if they explored his powers more… no wait, I probably would still hate him being king 😉

      Liked by 1 person

  3. I’m down with Stoneheart killing everybody at this point!

    I mostly agree with you. But Jon’s parentage has got to mean something in the books right? I mean I kind of always believed Rhaegar was just a shit which the show seemed to confirm but still… I kind of think Book Cersei is going out with a much bigger bang too. The time the show should have done it is after the Sept. If her and Book Euron don’t bring some destruction I’m going to be even more bummed. Plus the 3-Eyed Raven is up to something.

    But I definitely feel more pessimistic about the books. Hopefully time and some really good fan fiction will heal those wounds. I enjoyed your thoughts on the show!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. haha that wouldn’t be a bad idea!!

      Yeah I really wish it actually mean something!! I also think she’ll go out with a bigger bang (my personal theory is that Arya will assassinate her with Jaime’s face…. but that might be a bit far 😉 ) but I do think Euron will have more of a role- I just find it hard to tell. Same with the 3-eyed raven- I’m just not sure what! (wish I could be more definitive, but we haven’t really got much of a clue, and even what we have been told could be irrelevant, cos the showrunners deliberately held back information so that they could use it in their new spinoff *sigh* )

      I think that’s completely fair. I feel more optimistic than I probably should! Yeah, hopefully someone can write a great answer! Thanks!

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  4. I’ve only read the first book and just learned this week that the books were not completely finished. LOL I thought the show was following the books all the way through. Silly me.

    And yes, I DO live under a rock. LOL

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Ah, such a cool post!
    I can’t help but think that the character that was added in book #5, and is somehow related to Deny, but never made it into the tv show is supposed to be important in the original story line.
    And i do think that Jon Snow will have a better story as well, and not just basically become an outcast.
    If… the books will ever get written 😀

    Liked by 1 person

  6. I’m having the same kind of feeling, that most of it will end the same, but given that we have two full (massive) books to get through everything that happened in a shortened season, all of it will feel much more deserved and make sense. Hopefully, too, GRRM hasn’t forgotten all those little things he plopped all around that the showrunners just pretended didn’t exist, like greyscale, the prophecies, DORNE???, literally all the good parts, haha.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I completely agree- it was really rushed in the show and I think having space will allow some of these ideas to grow. YES!! There were so many important factors brought up in the show that never went anywhere (like Dorne’s entire army?!) And yeah they skirted around greyscale and prophecies too :/ haha so true!

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Disclaimer, I don’t watch the show.
    Question: How can the book follow more or less the same story line when Aegion is completely missing from the show??? Isn’t the dragon supposed to have 3 heads or something? I thought it was implied that would be Daenerys, Aegion, and John Snow. Am I way off?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Ah well I don’t know if it’s okay to spoil certain things, but they kind of split up the role of that character into a few others. But it wasn’t done terribly logically and there was clearly a hole where that character was supposed to be. As for the dragon has three heads, they completely skirted over (and ruined) all the prophecies- occasionally mentioning them and then abandoning them. Basically, they messed it up (although, not a spoiler, but my theory is that Aegon is a fraud in the books anyway and is really blackfyre)

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Yeah, I was always skeptical of Aegon’s claim too, but that whole prophecy seemed to be really important, or at least the fan theories at the time I read it (2013?) were making it out to be super important. *shrug* Honestly at this point I don’t remember or care much for the series in detail, and I am content to read wikipedia summaries. Based on the wikipedia summary, seems like it was a really bleh ending. There. I said it.

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  8. I think you could be right with the Mad Queen theory (but it would ABSOLUTELY BE DONE RIGHT). Martin is fantastic at understanding his characters – even the ones we don’t like – so if Dany did lose it, it would MAKE SENSE, not come out of nowhere.

    Jon, I’m not quite sure where Martin’s taking him. I kind of would like to see someone *else* end up the lost heir, so that Jon *can* focus solely on the Night King, since the White Walkers have always been a bigger/more obvious threat in the books. (In the show, they were kind of tacked on as the “cool zombie effects” motif, rather than what would bring down all of Westeros.)

    And I can’t see Martin killing off dragons, either – *possibly* just one. But I also think he’ll definitely be more conscious of a potential falling out between Dany and the Dothraki – and honestly, I’ve been expecting that in the books. Yes, she’s the Mother of Dragons, the Khaleesi, the Breaker of Chains, blah, blah ;), but asking an entire culture to leave behind their home and everything they’ve ever known, for a fight that is NOT THEIRS… If too many of her “sworn blood” warriors leave/”betray” her, that could nicely set up a “descent into madness”…

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Yeah Martin is a master at characterisation- so I’ve no doubt he’ll do that a million times better. I also think he’s set up the building blocks for it to go that way already AND he hasn’t done something stupid like write himself into a corner with a “break the wheel” speech (I think a lot of people referring to this forget this wasn’t something her character said in the books- which is important, cos it shows the showrunners were going in a different direction… annnd then had the problem of backpedalling).

      I hear you about jon’s role. I’m not really sure where Martin is taking that to be fair.

      Yeah I think that was just something the showrunners did cos they could. That’s a really good point about the falling out between Dany and the Dothraki!

      Liked by 1 person

  9. I read the books many many years ago and I do not remember everything being as you mentioned it. I DO however remember Mrs. Stark being…um… reanimated. Is this a made up memory, and should I see my doctor? If not, how will she impact the books? Surely she must have some importance!

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  10. I mean granted in terms of the books we’re a long way from the ending (it’s been so many years since GRRM released his latest book in the A Song of Ice and Fire series so we’re likely years and years away from getting the last book) but based on how he writes and the detail he puts into his story and characters I have a lot more faith in the ending of the series coming from him than I do what we saw in the show (if that makes sense). In the books I really want to see a better ending for Cersei (in that the prophecy she’s been terrified of actually comes into play rather than a bunch of rocks being her downfall) also I really hope he does something better with Jon and Dany’s characters than the show did. Actually I hope he does something better with ALL the characters than the show did. :/

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  11. Great post! I’m so looking forward to the books if they ever get released. Hate it when fantasy series are left dangling (I’m looking at you Patrick Rothfuss). And the books are undoubtedly better than the series.

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  12. Surprisingly, I have never read the books (okay, I started the first one and then got distracted) so I’m not really invested in them, but I do have faith that Martin will tie things up well, or at least the way he wants. My opinion is that he’s based a lot of this on history, and real life is often messy, so it will be interesting to see how he ends it.

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